Ryan Lay

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Debe Maxwell, CRS
Savvy + Company (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
The right Charlotte REALTOR!

Have Mr. Seller give you written permission to pre-market the property - just not in MLS. Spread the word in other ways than MLS.

If he wants it in MLS, nocando in NC or SC. You have to have a legal plat reference and a preliminary plat cannot be referenced.

Aug 30, 2018 10:24 AM
Barbara Todaro
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Happily Retired - Franklin, MA
Previously Affiliated with The Todaro Team

you can't list a lot until it's an approved lot.... it's not approved yet....what's the seller's issue.... 

Aug 30, 2018 09:56 AM
Kathleen Daniels, Probate & Trust Specialist
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
Probate Real Estate

You have your answers here.  There is only so much we can do for sellers. We must follow the rules.  

Aug 30, 2018 02:19 PM
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
https://HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

I'm going to have to defer to Barbara Todaro and our other new construction experts on this.

Aug 30, 2018 11:08 AM
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding, Marketing & Strategy


You have great answers, you will need to follow MLS rules.  A

Aug 30, 2018 10:32 AM
Lynnea Miller
Bend Premier Real Estate - Bend, OR
Premier Real Estate Service in Central Oregon

You need to follow your MLS rules, but our MLS will allow a master number with a bogus tax lot in order to get the property into MLS.  Once the plat is approved and recorded, we can adjust with the "real" lot. 

Aug 30, 2018 10:03 AM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

Ask them for the number that goes in that spot. It may be the master number

Aug 30, 2018 10:00 AM
Thomas J. Nelson, REALTOR ® e-Pro CRS RCS-D Vets
Big Block Realty 858.232.8722 - La Jolla, CA
& Host of Postcards From Success Podcast

Barbara Todaro has my answer.

Aug 30, 2018 08:20 PM
Harry Norman, REALTORS® - Atlanta, GA
Associate Broker

Barbara Todaro has your answer.

Aug 30, 2018 05:22 PM
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of the Manchester NH's area Leading Agents

Here in NH we can list a lot that as long as it states clearly, SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF SUBDIVISION. Contracts are actually non binding, meaning the buyer can get out any time for any reason, up until the approval happens. Then it is binding. We put the tax map id of the total lot with lots of explanation. It is easier to sell an approved lot and i tell my sellers they can get more money once approved, nearly all will want to wait. 

Aug 30, 2018 04:09 PM
Wanda Kubat-Nerdin - Wanda Can!
Red Rock Real Estate (435) 632-9374 - St. George, UT
St. George Utah Area Residential Sales Agent

I believe Barbara Todaro has answered the question. 

Aug 30, 2018 02:42 PM
Jeff Dowler, CRS
eXp Realty of California, Inc. - Carlsbad, CA
The Southern California Relocation Dude

Barbara Todaro has the answer. You have to follow the MLS rules but looks like in checking further you got a good answer.

Aug 30, 2018 02:25 PM
Richard Weeks
Dallas, TX
REALTOR®, Broker

Call the mls dept at  your local board.

Aug 30, 2018 11:48 AM
Joe Pryor
The Virtual Real Estate Team - Oklahoma City, OK
REALTOR® - Oklahoma Investment Properties

Talk to your broker.

Aug 30, 2018 10:41 AM
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
Los Angeles Pasadena 818.516.4393

You will need to contact your local mls if you are having a mls specific issue.

Aug 30, 2018 10:26 AM
David M. Dwares
Title Professionals Corp. - Fort Lauderdale, FL
Title guy with a broker license

The easy answer by the board is to say "sorry it's a required field."  I endorse Richard Weeks suggestion to call the MLS department.

Also you may want to check out the MLS written rules yourself.  I'm sure it is long, boring and confusing, but it may contain something that supports your position.

Aug 30, 2018 02:53 PM
Sam Shueh
(408) 425-1601 - San Jose, CA
mba, cdpe, reopro, pe

Suggest advertise in on Loopnet or Costar.

I have a new home completed amost 3 month ago on the market. I had to bump another agent tell him to get his own APN not mine for MLS. His has been completed 6 month ago with no APN yet.

Aug 30, 2018 02:04 PM
Roy Kelley
Retired - Gaithersburg, MD

Wait for the tax IDs.

Aug 30, 2018 01:39 PM
John Mosier
Realty ONE Group Mountain Desert - Prescott, AZ
Prescott's Patriot Agent 928 533-8142

Ryan Lay 

In Arizona, the issue is MUCH deeper than satisfying the MLS. Is taking the listings worth losing your license? 

The law in Arizona requires a Subdivision Public Report when splitting into six or more parcels. Violating subdivision law is a FELONY. The Arizona Department of Real Estate has jurisdiction over the entire state. The risk in getting ahead of the process is not worth the rewards.

In one specific instance, I refused to take listings worth a couple million dollars because my prospective Seller wanted to "fly under the radar" by doing illegal splits.

You may want to be careful in taking this kind of listing without doing your homework. I think almost all states, and certainly by the code of ethics, we are not permitted to work outside our area of expertise.

You need to talk to your Broker!

Aug 30, 2018 09:39 PM
Valeria Mola
SIB Realty - Miami, Sunny Isles Beach - Sunny Isles Beach, FL
305-607-0709 SIB Realty Condos for Sale and Rent

In Miami everything is possible. :)

Aug 30, 2018 08:55 PM
Debbie Reynolds, C21 Platinum Properties
Platinum Properties- (931)771-9070 - Clarksville, TN
The Dedicated Clarksville TN Realtor-(931)320-6730

What does your Utah broker say?

Aug 30, 2018 08:23 PM
Fred Griffin Florida Real Estate
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

    Edited answer:

    Wait until you get the parcel numbers for the lots. 

     Otherwise, see an attorney, maybe money can be held in escrow or something for eager pre-sale buyers.


Aug 30, 2018 05:21 PM
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

How can you sell a LOT w/out FINAL Approval ?

Aug 31, 2018 05:21 AM
Evelina Tsigelnitskaya
SIB Realty - Sunny Isles Beach, FL

In "our" World - they put listing on MLS with folio number with 00000000 and under new construction.

Aug 31, 2018 06:24 AM
William Feela
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

All  you need to market is a lsting agreement, then market it through other channels

Sep 02, 2018 06:23 PM
Joyce Marsh
Joyce Marsh Real Estate LLC - Ormond Beach, FL
Joyce Marsh Daytona Beach Area Florida Homes

You have received some great advice here.  

Sep 01, 2018 12:55 PM
Kasey & John Boles
Jon Gosche Real Estate, LLC - BoiseMeridianRealEstate.com - Boise, ID
Boise & Meridian, ID Ada/Canyon/Gem/Boise Counties

There are some great answers on here. Make sure to talk to your broker, your MLS, your real estate commission, and possibly an attorney. 

Aug 31, 2018 10:29 PM
Ryan Lay

Thank you to all who have commented.  I am grateful to learn from others and see how things work in other areas.  That is why I asked the question.

For the record, I have 10+ years experience as a Realtor, 10+ years experience as a Land Surveyor subdividing land for others, and 5+ years experience working for a State Land agency.  I have also developed and sold many lots myself.

This is the first subdivision I have listed in the State of Utah.  I was suprised by the flat "NO" response from the local MLS.  I have not experienced this rule elsewhere.  I also do not understand the logic behind the limitation.  Builders are not required to have completed homes before advertising or signing contracts.  EVERY transaction has risk.  As Realtors, we cover those risks with contingencies and other safeguards to protect our clients and ourselves. 

I have no intention of cheating the MLS system, but I am willing to go visit them and inquire further as to the "why" and see if its possible to change their rule.  I don't like rules that burden most honest people, but most dishonest people just ignore anyway.

If someone can explain why pre-selling lots is unethical I would love to understand.  It's only $10, but are movie trailers and pre-sold movie tickets also unethical?  Star Wars movie trailers come out LONG before the movies are finished.  Tickets are sold long before the movies can be viewed in a theater. 

Again, my seller has preliminary plat approval, which is an agreement between him and the city that if he fulfills his clearly outlined obligations, they will grant him final approval for the subdivision.  If he doesn't, they won't.  A contract to purchase a lot is the same.  If the developer doesn't fulfill his obligations, the EM is released to the buyer and the contract is terminated with no obligation to purchase.  What is unethical about that?

Aug 31, 2018 01:02 PM
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

Good luck.

Aug 31, 2018 11:18 AM
Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, KW Diversified - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

You need to ask a LOCAL broker this one.

Aug 31, 2018 08:13 AM
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

I can't help you with this.

Aug 31, 2018 07:36 AM
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker - Retired

So many issues here. The best you might do is take reservations "subject to..."! Many will never go to contract once approvals are obtained. That's life. Be prepared!

Aug 31, 2018 05:53 AM
Nina Hollander, Broker
Coldwell Banker Realty - Charlotte, NC
Your Greater Charlotte Realtor

I can't comment on how it's done in Utah, as I have no idea how it works there.

Aug 31, 2018 04:23 AM
Jack Cornell
Exit Realty Bend - Bend, OR
Central Oregon Residential Specialist

Simple solution is market the original parcel as having the potential for subdivision. When the Seller gets the final approval then gets surveys, etc. to actually make the lots legal to sell you will have lost months of marketing exposure. Put together a package with as much information as you can gather on the property then go see every major builder in the area. If you do this right it will sell without any MLS promotion. If you do all the due diligence and even get excavation quotes, SDCs requirements, utility charges etc. you may even be able to sell this parcel through dual agency. If you leave a good impression on the Buyer you might get to list their finished houses. The MLS rules I totally understand as a fraud prevention, but you are seeing that as a barrier instead of a “huge” opportunity.

Aug 31, 2018 03:19 AM
Praful Thakkar
LAER Realty Partners - Andover, MA
Andover, MA: Andover Luxury Homes For Sale

Ryan Lay - as long as you have the permission from (or agreement with) the seller, you should be able to start marketing!

Aug 30, 2018 10:17 PM