Special offer
Mike Thorne, I am a banana  (student)

Spam prevention
Rainmaker
1,052,176
Candice A. Donofrio
Next Wave RE Investments LLC Bullhead City AZ Commercial RE Broker - Fort Mohave, AZ
928-201-4BHC (4242) call/text

OK. In AZ, an Agency DISCLOSURE is required at first substantive meeting. That is not an AGREEMENT to represent - it is a disclosure that the consumer is NOT going to be represented by the agent. I do not blame the agent at all for refusing to show unless that was signed.
If they were requiring that the unrepresented buyer agree to be represented by the listing agent, that is not appropriate practice. You'd be amazed at how many agents work in our business for years and fail to comprehend agency.

Finally, the listing agent doesn't have an obligation to show a property they represent if they feel that consumer may be problematic for their client. They do, however, have the obligation to cooperate with other agents in their association.

What does working in corporate compliance have to do with not wanting representation, I'm curious to know? You mentioned the agent wanting 'all their commission instead of half'. Did your friend think they would be receiving that half?

Dec 18, 2015 09:51 AM
Rainmaker
2,362,595
Lise Howe
Keller Williams Capital Properties - Washington, DC
Assoc. Broker in DC, MD, VA and attorney in DC

Great discussion topic. I would have shown the house because I have an obligation (I believe) to the seller. Maryland is like NY - we have a disclosure of whom the agent represents. If the buyer doesn't sign, we put their name on the form and sign that they refused to sign. 

Dec 18, 2015 09:25 PM
Ambassador
6,392,929
Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, KW Diversified - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

That dual agency waiver is required around here, the agent is under no obligation to show homes to someone who is not even serious enough to sign a waiver.  I would make sure he showed proof of funds or financing before I took him on a home tour too.

Dec 18, 2015 04:58 PM
Rainer
187,002
Raj Taj
RE/MAX - Lake Bluff, IL
Drive By Blessings!

Dude, get your own agent, it will keep you out of trouble. Your friend out of trouble I mean.

Dec 18, 2015 11:41 AM
Rainmaker
687,136
Hella Mitschke Rothwell
(831) 626-4000 - Honolulu, HI
Hawaii & California Real Estate Broker

This is interesting. The listing agent gets his full commission from the seller no matter what, then shares it with a "cobroke". If there is none, he keeps the whole commission. In the situation you mention, where your friend wants to represent himself and save the 3% commission (NOT), I would insist on a  "Buyer Non Agency Agreement" in California where listing broker does not represent the buyer. And, yes, I would want this in advance so there is no confusion as to "agency" since my "fiduciary" lies with the seller. In Hawaii, it's a little different where the potential buyer needs to sign a "Dual Agency Consent Addenda" where both buyer and seller are treated equally. No fiduciary. But that's only on an offer from the buyer.

If, has happens a lot, buyers call me to view a home, I have no trouble doing so. Often it turns into a dual agency sale which my listing clients have told me in advance they have no problem with. It's only when the buyer wants to represent himself, that the paperwork needs to flow. I suggest they go see their lawyer. And there is no "co broke" paid.

Dec 18, 2015 10:05 AM
Rainmaker
2,182,502
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

In most states Buyers are allowed to purchase Unrepresented ! A true Dual Agent represents no one (skill set wise) and has been reduced to a facilitator. You don't need to create Dual Agency to make the entire commission !

Dec 18, 2015 06:44 AM
Rainmaker
3,071,489
Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers
Serving the Greater Phoenix and Scottsdale Metropolitan Area - Scottsdale, AZ
Haven Express @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty

What Candice A. Donofrio said - and - I saw no mention of your friend having provided any documentation - Prequalification or Proof of Funds - that would demonstrate their ability to purchase the property.  

Dec 18, 2015 08:54 PM
Rainmaker
613,494
Eve Alexander
Buyers Broker of Florida - Tampa, FL
Exclusively Representing ONLY Tampa Home Buyers

Welcome to the world of dishonesty...you will see a lot more of this when you get licensed.

Don't bother with a complaint.  The state only wants to hear about a broker who ran off with the escrow money...a local ethics complaint will also go no where because many on the panel are doing the same thing.

The first mistake was made by your friend who thinks that they don't need their own agent...the needed to hire a Buyers Broker first.

Eve

PS: don't confuse a state disclosure with a buyer broker agreement.  And yes, the agent does have a fiduciary duty to the seller which they are breeching when they attempt to represent the buyer.

Dec 18, 2015 07:49 PM
Ambassador
2,684,009
Fred Griffin Florida Real Estate
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

     As a Broker, or as a Buyer, if the LA won't let me in, or won't present my offer, I am going straight to the Seller. 

Dec 18, 2015 02:54 PM
Rainmaker
953,617
Pete Xavier
Investments to Luxury - Pacific Palisades, CA
Outstanding Agent Referrals-Nationwide

The listing agent could require a BBA & DAD to a prospective buyer if the agent wants to, even though it's not required in my state (the DAD would be required if you decide to write an offer with the listing agent). Agent also has the right to refuse to work with a prospective buyer. I am LOYAL to any prospective client if they want to see any home they'd return that loyalty by agreeing to sign a single property BBA & DAD (at least) and have their pre approval at the ready. Of course this is not needed for open house visits. Loyalty and commitment is a two way street with anybody working with my team. One could always go to another agent for buyers' representation, why did your friend not sign with a buyers' agent? It's the best deal out there!

 

Agents have NO legal loyalty to people outside the contract, PERIOD. An agent could be doing their due diligence or their own method of practice by refusing anyone outside of the contract. This does not hinder anyone as they could simply find another agent.

BBA=Buyer-Broker Agreement

DAD=Dual Agency Disclosure 

 

This pertains to California and I'm NOT a real estate attorney.

 

Dec 18, 2015 06:01 AM
Rainmaker
1,513,143
Raymond E. Camp
Ontario, NY

I am not a fan of buyer agency but do use it; here we need disclosure signed by the client and if they do not sign we write in their name, date and that they refused.

I would always show the home.

Dec 18, 2015 05:58 AM
Rainmaker
1,725,996
Sandy Padula & Norm Padula, JD, GRI
HomeSmart Realty West & Florida Realty Investments - , CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Your friend had no agency agreement be it a Single Agency, or better yet the Buyer-Broker Agreement, which by the way is no better than the paper it is written on. He has no recourse against this agent. When you eventually enter into the business as a licensed agent, you will discover that the two are separate issues and you will get 'burned' by buyers who are uncommitted to you. This entire scenario you related seemed to boil down to poor communication by both parties. resulting in this outcome.

Dec 18, 2015 05:23 AM
Rainer
216,904
Sharon Altier
Coldwell Banker Realty - Elmhurst, IL
Luxury Property Specialist, CSC, SFR

Why not have your friend contact the Managing Broker of the firm and find out if this is a company policy or a poor judgement call by the listing agent?  That should be done before any complaint is filed with Dviision of Real Estate.  They can cross out everything and write Not Represented on the document, so it is clear that the showing is one of Listing Agent representing Seller and NOT Buyer.   

Dec 18, 2015 05:20 AM
Rainmaker
911,228
Jeff Pearl
RE/MAX Distinctive / LIC in VA - Lovettsville, VA
Full Service Full Time Realtor

Agents can't force or require anyone to sign those forms before showing them a house. I wonder if that agent tries to pull that at open houses? The one thing your friend needs to know though, is he shouldn't ask any questions of that agent that sound like he has a serious interest in the property. In many states, agents can't have substantive discussions about a property without having a signed buyer agreement. Those agreements can be dated by the way, they can be for 1 showing, 1 day, 1 month, etc. Another thing to consider is the listing agents instructions from the seller. Owners can instruct their agent to only show property to pre-approved buyers who are represented by an agent. It shouldn't cost your friend anything to interview and hire a buyers agent that he likes, and it would probably be in his best interest.

Dec 18, 2015 05:18 AM
Rainmaker
979,496
Troy Erickson AZ Realtor (602) 295-6807
HomeSmart - Chandler, AZ
Your Chandler, Ahwatukee, and East Valley Realtor

Mike - Reading all of these answers, I must be missing something.

I thought you said that the listing agent refused to show a home to a potential buyer because they did not sign an Agency Agreement form ahead of time, which would acknowledge that the buyer was "hiring" the said listing agent.

How is this okay? How can the listing agent force a potential buyer to hire them as their agent just to look at a home.

How is this situation so different from open houses, where the listing agent may have all sorts of potential buyers previewing the home who are not represented by them, or by a buyers agent. Heck, lots of them might just be nosy neighbors who have no intention of buying. None of them are required to sign any contract, disclosure, or agreement before looking at the home. Open houses are welcome to anyone and everyone, and not only do none of those individuals have to sign anything, but none of them have to be pre-qualified or pre-approved for a loan before they see the home either, but they are all certainly welcome to take a look at the home no questions answered.

Dec 20, 2015 06:14 AM
Rainmaker
1,502,898
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
https://HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

Wow.  I have not heard of that out here.  If I get a sign call from someone not represented, I rush out there to show it.  In California, if I show the buyer and they write an offer with someone else, I still get the commission because I was the one to initially show it, even if they're under contract with another agent.  Doesn't matter who writes the contract.  Might require some legal action, but that's life.

 

On those calls, my goal is to pick them up as a buyer for my listing or if that house doesn't work, then as a general buyer.  They obviously know I'm the listing agent and if they write the offer, there is a disclosure about that as well.

 

For my two cents, I think those couple agents were foolish but that's their perrogative.  Maybe they've been burned before.

Dec 19, 2015 07:10 AM
Rainmaker
7,835,323
Roy Kelley
Retired - Gaithersburg, MD

These rules are not the same in all states. It is important to understand the requirements in the state where the property is located.

Dec 19, 2015 06:04 AM
Rainmaker
5,104,931
Nina Hollander, Broker
Coldwell Banker Realty - Charlotte, NC
Your Greater Charlotte Realtor

All you need to is disclose to an unrepresnted buyer that you are not representing their interests. And if they want representation they can choose to sign a dual agency agreement with you or find their own agent. But I don't think you can make them sign anything. 

Dec 18, 2015 10:31 PM
Rainmaker
4,434,127
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

In our listing contracts , it is between seller and listing agent so if there is only one agent and the contract allows it the agent gets to keep the entire money.

The buyer is not going to get a reduction for not using an agent.Again it will depend on listing contract and state laws.

Dec 18, 2015 08:56 PM
Rainmaker
2,759,812
TeamCHI - Complete Home Inspections, Inc.
Complete Home Inspections, Inc. - Brentwood, TN
Home Inspectons - Nashville, TN area - 615.661.029

 Good morning Mike. Interesting question and I found the answers to be interesting as well.

Dec 18, 2015 05:23 PM
Rainmaker
634,482
Kathleen Luiten
Resort and Second-Home Specialist - Princeville, HI
Kauai Luxury Ocean Home Sales

I will always show the home

Dec 18, 2015 04:05 PM
Rainmaker
2,443,250
Evelyn Johnston
Friends & Neighbors Real Estate - Elkhart, IN
The People You Know, Like and Trust!

Wow, this isn't a question, it is a post!

Dec 18, 2015 12:47 PM
Rainmaker
3,988,007
Debbie Reynolds, C21 Platinum Properties
Platinum Properties- (931)771-9070 - Clarksville, TN
The Dedicated Clarksville TN Realtor-(931)320-6730

 It depends what the agency laws are in your state. In TN you are to disclose who you represent at first opportunity and then can proceed to show an unrepresented buyer.

Dec 18, 2015 12:42 PM
Rainmaker
212,755
Stefan Winter
Real Estate in IL & NV | Owner of Real Estate Web Tech | Daily Vlogger - Las Vegas, NV
Owner - Winter Group & Real Estate Web Tech

I would say that was a bad judgement call of the agent, they should have at least still showed up and discussed in person what was happening. 

Dec 18, 2015 12:01 PM
Rainmaker
2,224,473
Debbie Laity
Cedaredge Land Company - Cedaredge, CO
Your Real Estate Resource for Delta County, CO

I don't beleive that an agent can make anyone sign a contract if they don't want to. As a buyer I would find another agent.

Dec 18, 2015 09:01 AM
Rainmaker
4,935,567
Will Hamm
Hamm Homes - Aurora, CO
"Where There's a Will, There's a Way!"

I try to have them sign a agent agreement with me before I take them out, even if it is for one day.

Dec 18, 2015 07:52 AM
Rainmaker
4,160,276
John Pusa
Glendale, CA

Mike Thorne This is very good question!

Dec 18, 2015 05:36 AM