Simon.I was looking to you for a clearer picture. It's still very fuzzy for me. I didn't care for McCain's patronization of Obama yet Obama was naive without question. From the time I saw Obama not raise his hand for the Pledge of Allegiance I wondered where he was getting off...yet he is articulate and clear headed.

Hum. Thanks for the rundown. I'm voting for you.

Later in the rain~Deb

Simon- Somehow I just knew I could count on you to get your after the debate post up as soon as it was over!

Hi Simon:

   I didn't watch the debate, because I suspected the talking points had already been memorized and recited enough. I may be a little sarcastic, but here's what I expect.  The people who supported Obama will say that he handed Mccain his lunch: "he was on message, and showed that he has command of the facts".  "Mccain stumbled and seemed to be out of his element". Those supporting Mccain will say that: "Mccain handed Obama his lunch"or "Obama seemed lost".

   In light of your earlier post about leadership, I would have preferred that Mccain stick to his guns and stay away from the debate.  Like I said in your earlier post: "Which one of  the two men would choose to forego the Presidency in order to save the country?

Simon ~ Well done, and well said. I thought Obama had no real plan of action. Only the key word cut taxes on 95% of Americans, like you said 40% don't pay taxes at all. McCain let that slip,  but then again if he said something he would come across mean and scolding the little boy for Chicago.

Richard ~ PLEASE, don't get Simon started on the Hussein middle name thing.

Simon, As far as the economy i am glad that they are not trying to turn this problem into 2 minute soundbite. The final result of whatever plan is worked out will affect every single living American. We seem to forget that the share holders of the banks are you and me , anyone with a 401K or an IRA. Millions of jobs could be lost A bailout will have to happen but it can't be rushed. That being said McCain has earned alot of respect for at least being part of the solution and Obama once again proved he doesn't care because it won't matter under socialism anyway.

As far as the rest of the debate I give Senator McCain a lot of credit for not crossing the podium and choking this moron.

Deb - thanks for your vote of confidence!

Katerina - I aim to please

Tom I agree with the last part of what you said, but the debate brought out the huge difference in ability.

Richard - please edit out the Hussein thing!

What am I chop liver, Simon?

yeah

Nick - he made Obama look like a fool on national security

Hugh - I wasn't looking for a two minute solution either, but I felt McCain should have won that, but he let Obama off the hook and so it was a tie.

As for your last comment - brilliant! I also thought that there was a moment when Obama should have thanked McCain for his service and his sacrifice. He did neither which showed me he has no class.

Oh Hugh, be quiet or I'll send Linda Mae to haunt you.

I only answer four at a time! I'm nearly 50 you know!! *lol*

Simon I save Linda Mae's blogs for last then I have to walk away for 7 or 8 hours

I thought it was boring. Although I am surprised at the number of times Obama agreed with mcCains statements.

Sean Allen

Thats good Hugh, I have to keep myself from jumping off my 8th floor balcony after reading her blogs and comments.

Neither candidate was a shining star.  My only additional input is that Senator Obama really puts me off with all of his incessant s-s-s-s-stuttering.

I agree with Simon on most points. It wasn't the hands down that I was looking for. HOWEVER, I do think McCain, on most points, showed that this is NOT a job for on the job training. Obama just does NOT get a lot of the reasons things need to be done the way they are in a military situation. I agree also with McCain, you just don't go blabbing out WHAT your plan of action is going to be in times of war either. Obama just does NOT get that at all.

And yes, Richard, I'm with you on the fact that Obama was a BIG hypocrit tonight by wearing the pin. He has made his point very clear on what he thinks about that and for him to start wearing one is strictly a "OOPS, I had better start ACTING like a care" ploy.

Hugh ~ I'm with you. I thought it showed GREAT restrain on Senator McCain's part. The desire to reach in to the TV and BOP Obama was a little overwhelming for me too.

Simon, I usually like to listen to the Fox News commentary but since I  am suffering from no cable thanks to Ike I came here to get my commentary and you did not disappoint me.  It was sometimes hard to hear the debate as my husband was yelling at the television screen; especially there towards the end.  Personally I did not find Obama to be that articulate; I have a hard time getting past all the uh's that he puts in his conversation and the other half of the time I can't make heads or tails out of what he is saying.  That and the fact the he goes TOTALLY against my conservative values. 

I truly feel that neither is a good choice for president. I thought McCain was constantly attacking Obama. I do not like that kind of treatment of another. Obama in my opinion waa a better man and at least agreed with McCain on many issues instead of attacking. Being sarcastic as McCain was turns me off!  I also feel that all  McCain talked about was the past and at least Obama talked about the future. I have not taken a side but we do not need anymore of the past. That is what has us in trouble now!

No way, Simon....I do not agree with you.  I do not believe either guy stood out as winner - both had a few jabs but no knockouts and no one reigned.  In terms of taxes and spending, McCain did not come out ahead.  He asked how Obama could cut if he's proposing a number of items that will cost.  But that's not a knockout.  Obama could have KO'd McCain on taxes because he's right - anyone making under $250k/year is better off with Obama's tax structure.  But he didn't take the big swing either.

He said on numerous occassions that McCain's were right because they were.  There are a variety of areas where they share the same objective, it's the means that differ.  Why wouldn't he acknowledge where McCain's right?  You should ask why McCain didn't do the same? 

And I do not agree that Iraq and Afghanistan are intrinsically linked.  They actually had nothing to do with each other until March 2003.

Just because Obama agreed with Senator McCain doesn't make him a better man, it just points out that he knows McCain is smarter on the issues. Sometimes you have to point out what is wrong with Obama's ideology which is socialism, and perhaps that makes him look like a stern father. We need a father figure in Washington, not a know it all son with no experience.

At least it's not because he's a poor minority who can't afford a home without government intervention.

Kathy - you're funny. made me smile!

Marchel - Obama is great with a prepared speech - he is terrible off the cuff.

Jean - McCain was talking about his experience in international affairs. He asked important questions like why hasn't Obama been to Afghanistan??

Tchaka - I am not surprised you don't agree with me, but the thing is you didn't read properly. On the economy I said it was a tie (OK - I used the brit term "draw"). As for Afghanistan and Iraq being lined, I suggest you e-mail General Patreus.

Nick - he also simply does not understand that the President of the United States does not sit down with someone like President Ahmanutjob without preconditions. He simply doesn't understand what national security and foreign affairs are about.

Tchaka - huh? Now you want the Government to buy people homes??? I'm confused.

Tchaka ~ Thats right, all they need to do is call Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Chuck Schumer and ACORN, they paved the way for those with poor credit to get loans. Wasn't Obama counsel to ACORN? Oh, thats too much truth for one liberal to hear at once. We'll try to go slowly for you, Tchaka.

Nick - it's funny - you mention all of that and didn't even say "Raines"!

Well, I was waiting for you to chime in, I can't take all the credit. I want group participation.

I think they are tired. They had a bad day and they know it!

Simon - Patreus is a great soldier, but that doesn't mean he decides the relationship between Iraq and Afghanistan.  They weren't linked (as far as we're concerned) until we created a link in 2003.

Simon (11:04) - That was directed at Nicholas.

Nicholas - Please go slower, much slower.  I want YOU to understand.

Tchaka - the point I (and indeed McCain and David Patreus) was making is that they are linked NOW. You have to have victory in Iraq in order to secure victory in Afghanistan. Both will happen if the country is smart enough in November. If not, then understand we will have to go back once Obama gets kicked out of office after four years.

"Victory in Iraq" is a very vague concept.  Very.

This is going to be picky but did anyone else pause when McCain talked about voting to send our Marines to Lebanon in 1983?  I recall our Marines deploying in 1982.

On the economy -  Both candidates were awkward with little substance.  In fairness, with the disaster being left to them, they would be foolish to cite specifics when no-one yet knows how bad this really is we just know it is a disaster of unbelievable proportions.

On Cutting Spending - Simply telling people over and over again that you will cut taxes when your proposals support the richest Americans.  Little substance and simplistic thoughts (in fairness, many American people like this "just like me" approach).

In General Obama - Is there a law stating that you shouldn't call someone by their first name?  I guess it was disrespectful that McCain reiterated over and over again that Obama just doesn't understand.  Calling someone by their first name, disrespectful.  Belittling someone, an example of strength?

Number Times - Is there a reason he shouldn't agree with McCain if he actually does?  Perhaps a bit too intellectual for many.  The rest of your comment here is simply repeating what some commentators are saying on our info-tainment outlets.

Once the debate - Your comment, "His lack of understanding of the issues is truly scary ..." are you referring to McCain, all of the places he has visited, all of his worldly experience, yet none of this helped his poor judgment when it came to championing the Iraq war.  The surge, the surge, it's working, the surge!  There never should have been a surge as there never should have been a war.

He did not understand - Your comment, "how Iraq and Afghanistan are intrinsically linked and he made it very clear to me at least that we would be a heck of a lot safer with McCain in charge."  Again, completely confused, McCain got it WRONG when it came to Iraq.  How anyone could continue to defend and support such a bankrupt argument is quite unbelievable.

If anyone voted for George Bush once, almost unbelievable that one could twice, and now suggest that we should vote for McCain?  Do you really want us to believe that you have now finally got it right when you have already failed miserably at figuring out the obvious? 

Not a record I would be proud of and luckily not a record I will ever have to admit to.

Simon,

May the best debater man win!!! Thanks,   Fran

I had expected more out of Obama, the orator. I

When it came to delivery, even though McCain was rather monotonous, he appeared more confident about the accuracyof his statements and facts. He seemed more decisive. I don't think I heard him say "uhm" often.

Obama cited statistics and figures but seemed to use more metaphors.

And did anyone notice how often Obama interrupted when it was McCain's turn to speak? And why didn't the moderator stop those interruptions, and why didn't he give the minutes back to McCain as a result of Obama barging in?

On one occasion when McCain tried to interrupt, the moderator stopped him, and let Obama continue. He didn't extend the same courtesy to McCain.

Guess I've made up my mind: substance over style, McCain over Obama.

Roger - Muy bien!

Pacita - I didn't get that much out of this debate and felt that both candidates didn't really strike as hard as they could have.  I'm happy for you that after months of campaigning, you were able to make your decision based on this debate.

Hi Tchaka:   If anyone made up their mind after tonight's debate, then they've been asleep at the wheel which would actually describe most Americans. 

There is absolutely no way that anyone who critically thinks and has done their part as an American citizen could actually have decided who they are going to vote for after this debate.  Incredibly shallow.

If you haven't been studying and researching these candidates then you haven't been doing what has made this country a great place.

My kids killed my debate watching but it made for a good attempt at a funny post.  What I saw they both were bad...I am going to take up politics and run for President.

My exact sentiments, Roger!!

Simon- You are correct, McCain should have pointed out the greater amount of income taken into the govt. since the Bush tax cuts.

When obama mentioned schools McCain should have pointed out Federal spending for schools went up 99% under Bush.

I hope McCain was saving this for the next debate.  You know the one where obama who never made a budget (except for the Rezko one)  knows more about the economy than John McCain.

Nicholas and Hugh:  I don't think anybody won tonight.  Boring... same old same old.  But... hey, be nice to Linda Mae.  I actually really like many of the things she has to say.  She seems very informed about the issues, and I find her comments to be right on point.

Simon:  Liberals ?  Are there really Liberals here on Active Rain ?  Not me.  I'm a "Progressive."  LOL.

Karen Anne - The funny thing is that many of those who yell "liberal" actually share many liberal views.  Well, at least liberalism by definition, particularly classical liberalism.

Simon,

I don't understand Tchaka's comment???

(At least it's not because he's a poor minority who can't afford a home without government intervention.)

Call me "blonde" but I have been trying to figure out where that belongs in this blog?? 

Watched the debate, wasn't too impressed by much I heard but I'll give this one to McCain.  I was hoping for alot more answers, didn't get many.

NJ

NJ - The answer you seek was at 11:29 PM.

Tchaka- Classical liberalism?  Is that what happens when Jimmy Carter goes to the symphony?  (sorry I couldn't resist)

LOL!!!  You got me laughing with that one, Larry.  :-D

Nicholas - You left out Slick Willie!

Check out this very Elucidating article from none other than The New York Times, back in 1999.

Here are just a couple of the quotes - "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people..."

And, "'Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required...''

And one more - "In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's."

It's here, http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Jeff

Tchaka,

OK.  LOL.  I'm still not getting it. Oh well

NJ:  If you are going to imply that someone else is kinda dumb... like you tried to do with Tchaka... you might also try and get your labels right.  This... is not a blog, it is a post !  The whole collection of all of Simon's posts... is what a blog is.

Karen,

It's a blog post - a post, on a blog. And I thought Lib's weren't "judgmental"

Karen Anne,

I was actually not implying that anyone was DUMB except ME!!!  I think I referred to it as being abit BLONDE??? Didn't understand Tchaka's comment on Simon's POST.  Thank you for correcting me on the proper name to use though. I'd hate to be referring to something improperly.

Jeff,

I didn't think they were either but I guess I just learned otherwise.  Now, I don't know what to call it??  BLOG?  POST? COMMENT??  Oh, I am sure Simon will let me know so I don't offend anyone by calling it the wrong thing.  SORRY TO BE SO OFF TOPIC SIMON      :P

Simon - I just have 2 points - It was very sad that Obama could not remember the name of the soldier on his bracelet - he literally had to look down and read the name.  And second, Henry Kissinger is all over him for mis-stating the facts about talking to our enemies.

Simon - glad you posted this, I missed most of the debate. Did catch some of the after debate commentary but aside from Juan Williams, Bill Kristol and the woman from Fortune magazing (drawing an absolute blank on her name) everything looked pretty partisan. Giuliani, while partison, did seem to give a good report of it also.

"I'm a progressive". Does the person that wrote that realize that Mussolini was also a progressive, or at least extremely admired by progressives. Those that wanted to keep women from voting were progressives. Woodrow Wilson, with is goon force was a progressive.

Classic liberalism has nothing to do with today's liberals. Thomas Jefferson and many of the founders practiced "classic liberalism", even JFK, but certainly no prominent liberal today does, except  maybe Lieberman.

Susan ~ I am glad a woman pointed that out about Obama could not even remember this soldiers name stuttering until he looked at his notes. Total Elitist. McCain from his heart knows what it means to a soldier and to his mother or family. Obama is so out of touch, but he is for the middle class? Wants to bring us back to and resurrect the failed Jimmy Carter economic plan, I hope you liberals liked the long lines on the gas pump, and inflation and 18% interest rates on mortgages, its coming if Obama gets elected. I am spitting on the floor now three times, like me Jewish Bubbie would have done.

Simon ~

I featured this post last night. Congratualtions this post is featured in Silent Majority of Active Rain.

Mike - I believe you mean to say that classical liberalism has nothing to do with what many in America today term as liberalism. 

Tchaka ~ You might be a elite moderator of Dissent, and surely your comrades think you are so smart, but your rude condescension doesn't fly here. Your Patronizingly superior attitude is appalling. Mike knows what he means, and he doesn't need you to explain his terms.

I'm sure Mike can speak for himself when he logs on.  The Mike I've come to know doesn't need your interference, he's quite a bright and insightful guy.  BTW, "patronizingly" shouldn't be capitalized.

For you it needed to be, because you are special

Simon, to me this isn't a big deal, but your third and fourth points contradict each other.

In general Obama ... He called McCain "John" most of the time...

Numerous times he said "Senator McCain is absolutely right"

If Obama said "Senator McCain" numerous times, then he was respectful by your definition.

That makes all the sense in the world. 

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

It makes sense for you to correct my grammar now, lets everyone get their spellcheck out, Tchaka taking grades.

Jeff:  It's just "once a teacher, always a teacher."  It took me back to my days of correcting homework.

NJ:  Thanks for your comment on the "post" stuff... hope I was not too harsh.  It just took me back to my teaching days when I corrected my kids homework.  Those were wonderful days, and I miss them.  :)  Have a great Saturday.

I have to agree there was no knock out blow here.  That said, I think the overall debate highlighted McCain's real life experience, as well as Obama's book smart ways.  I think there's a place for Obama in the American debate that will bring this country back to prosperity, but I do not see him as Commander and Chief.

if obama wins, would he make maccain he chief of staff in orer to get his advice?  lol

chris

Tchaka - I don't know too many that call themselves a liberal that fit the mold of a Jeffersonian classic liberal. Most of those now call themselves libertarian. And, I am really amazed that anyone would call themselves "progressive" if they new the complete history of the progressive movement and how statist and restrictive it was.

Tchaka - there was a vote in 1983 regarding using the War Powers Act to extend marines tours in Lebanon beyond the original mission length. McCain voted against implementing it. Yes, the marines were already there, but, as stated, this was a vote to keep them there.

I was disappointed with McCain on the economy.  I think he missed a great opportunity when he could have said-

Obama wants Main street to carry the risk of the mistakes that Wall Street and the banks have made.

I want the company's to carry the burden of risk that they themselves caused.  He would have cleaned up Obama with that statement.

I thought McCain did very well on the War on Terror.  He made Obama look like a little boy that did not understand the details.

{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN

OBAMA

NEITHER

Total Votes: 396,943

Nicholas- Yet again you post The Drudge Report Poll. Don't worry, I am going to call you out every time on this crap. You post a poll from a far right website and then trumpet it like it is a real poll. For shame on trying to deceive people who don't know any better.

Simon - Senator McCain handled himself like a leader. Senator Obama handled himself like a politician - talking in circles.