I agree jim,knowledge is key. You need to know everything about what you do

You're right, Jim, you need to be a great real estate agent in your followup. Also, there should be more concern about Content on your website than positioning.

I've always told customers.... a great site with great placement will NOT make a great REALTOR.  A mediocre website with mediocre placement... with a great REALTOR behind it ... will be successfull.  You need a combination of all three.  Many people choose ONE - they 'get a website'.  They have no marketing strategy and they're not particularly successful agents in their own right - and then they are angry that the whole 'website thing isn't working'.  A business card is not a marketing strategy - yet that's what so many people think.

I agree with all.  Being successful in real estate just because you have # 1 position doesn't follow.  In our business they feel it does! I know many persons that have better web position than ourselves, but it does not necessarily follow that they do more business. It is just like those a few years back had the fancy real estate cars as soon as they had their license.  The Cadillac's, the Benz's, the Lexus etc...  That does not make the person knowledgeable about buying or selling.  It is an empty package.

Jim Crawford

Good insight in your post, but I would disagree heartily with "most PPC is fraud".  That's a very broad statement and might scare away many who would benefit from it.

I am a Google Certified Adwords Professional (do not take on clients nor manage PPC for anyone).  I have been doing PPC with Google and Overture/Yahoo for seven years.  I make 100% of my real estate commission income from my web site.  I have cut my PPC back by 80% over that time as my site(s) gained better free positioning. 

I can match up very closely the clicks I'm paying for with the new unique visitors to my site from those services, and my stickiness is decent.  Thus, I cannot in any way see enough fraud to be even slightly concerned.  I did try a service once that tracked every click by IP address and warned me when multiple clicks in a short time period came from one source.  The few times I received a reminder and tracked it down, it was a person who forgot how they found me and did another search to get to me again.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it isn't something to be afraid of, as even with excellent content and a lot of it, it can take months to a year or more to garner good position on Google.  PPC is a viable strategy during that time and as a supplement ongoing.

Jim Kimmons
http://realestate.about.com

I stand by my statements.  PPC Fraud is more the norm than most people want to believe.  It is easy to track for those that want to enlighten themselves. It only requires a few lines of code. Most in our industry will not do the research, and roll up their sleeves. No one in our industry will do an expose on PPC fraud, but they will try to sell you the benefits of PPC.   They will prey upon unsuspecting agents that will not have enough knowledge to ask the right questions.

I have for my own behalf looked into PPC big time.  Most of PPC fraud it is software driven, but not all...  It is easy to track with some lines of code... it is easy to see patterns of frequencies...   I've discussed it, talked to commercial website owners that have participated in PPC only to find they have been had, and have verified proof of the fraud.

If web traffic increases exponentially, but business does not... and the person is participating in PPC...chances are someone  is taking their money.  There is always someone that will buy into it.  I pay for nada.  No position, and no SEO fees, and no PPC. 

Good information Jim.  A website is a valuable part of a Realtor's marketing mix.  Done well it can be the best thing in that mix.

kk

Good points about the search terms used by consumers. Some agents celebrate the #1 position for phrases like "(agent name) (city name) real estate", not realizing that consumers will probably never use that exact phrase.

Thanks all.  I believe the Internet is the best thing that has ever happened to real estate!  You just have to understand how it works, and with your real estate knowledge and sales abilities you will do very well!

Jim:

Your input is greatly appreciated and encouraging to those of us just starting to put our toe in the water. 

Valid points Jim. Sounds like you have done your homework, and many can learn from your post. Thanks for the insight.

Very good and valid point. I personally built my website Resourceaz.com and I built it to focus on the consumers needs. With the spider engines I built I show up on the first or second page on most search terms. I get about 10 leads a week on new home buyers and those leads get distributed to professionals that can handle them. I agree with you completely about this subject.

Neat site! Sites really have to show up on page 1.  I call it my "Top ten rule!" Most people never go to page 2.  But knowing the rules are important, becasue one day you'll go to your site,and find that it is buried at the bottom.  The last page in the search on the search engine. Been there, done that! And how do you correct what is wrong, how do you get it back to page one and stay there will matter.

Great Information and articles to read.  I'm still tweaking my site and always appreciate advice and insight.  I hope to start getting some "real" leads soon and not just phony email addresses.

A good read, Jim. 

Every dime I've made from real estate sales and brokerage since 1995 has come from the Internet and I have made a lot of dimes.  I believe that one of the reasons my Internet strategy has been so successful is because I knew real estate very well before the Internet.

The Internet is an advertising medium, nothing more, nothing less, just different.  What makes the Internet such a challenge for many real estate practitioners is that they fail to understand the technology and fail further to understand the consumer that uses this fabulous medium.

Of course, the Internet has change the world.  No reason why it shouldn't have changed real estate practice. 

And, it's fun.

Lenn,  Homefinders.com

Great points, I am also trying to learn as much as I can because I know how important internet marketing is to the real estate business.  Understanding this medium is the way to remain on top. 

What is great about it is that we are always learning.  I agree with Lenn Harley It's fun, it's a money maker, and we have to maek an effort to understand it.  It is not just about throwing money at it. If we know what we want to sell, the Internet is that mouse trap!  So it is invigorating at the same time!

Jim Crawford

I've worked on a good website for over six years now.  With the release of our RE/MAX site last year, I finally found one that works.  It's a constant challenge and I still don't have it showing at the top of the search engines.  NEVER GIVE UP!

Kay Van Kampen

Jim this Post is Awesome!   I agree with you about PPC.  I canceled my overture account in June, due to the constant click fraud I would pick up with my StatCounter.  I've cut my Google PPC down to about 10% of my total clicks.  Organic Placement is the way better than PPC, finally I believe it!

Jim,

This was great!  I receive phone call, after phone call, and email is the same way.  They want to sell me on higher placement or how to get more leads.  I am not saying those systems don't work, but I'm in my market everyday.  I should have the best understanding of what my market needs are, and how to generate more leads myself instead of paying someone. 

People can look here in the AR community to learn more and more.  There are plenty of people here willing to help, and willing to do it for Free.

Thanks for the post.

Same here in Atlanta.  Almost every day now.  First they call my wife, then me! It must be alphabetical!  Perhaps the MLS has sold the real estate agents names!  LOL!  Higher placement on page 1!   I agree with you!  You'll go broker before you figure it is all a game to steal your money!

Jim Crawford 

Excellent read.  I was not aware that so much of PPC was potentially fradulent.....

Jim,

What a great post.  I get probably 85% of my new business from my website and lead generation.  It was refreshing the past few months when all the local realtors talked about how slow it was the past 3 months, it was the busiest 3 months I have ever had!  And it sure hasn't slown down at all.

I don't even know what cold calling is....other then expired homes

Jim, this is great information.  More and more people use the internet as their resource for buying/selling a home.  Websites are a lot of work but worth it!  I enjoyed reading the link you had on farming as well.  Thanks for the post!

Thanks for the great links. There si no question that more knowledge will make you more successful..but it may be a lot of work unless you pay someone to do it for you

First of all, 85% of my business is from the web.  I am very grateful I got involved when I did.  I made loads of mistakes, but learned from them.  The greatest thing about understanding the www is that I can make instantanious changes.  I do not have to consult, I do not pay anything, no postage, no trips to post office, no lables.  We dropped our marketing to nothing.  I think most people in real estate just don't get it.  Thats good for us that do!

Everywhere there is names, numbers, ads, papers,websites to contact for online advertising.  I am confused quite frankly with so many.  How does one know who is the 'RIGHT ONE' to contact for help.It's easy to get scammed these days and I'm always causious.

 Patricia Aulson/REALTOR/Seacoast NH, ME & MA   URL:  www.patricia4realestate.com

Most just want your money and a contract specifying  how much a month you will commit for how many years.  Once you realize it is fraudulent...and try to cancel they threaten to sue.  Because I am areal estate columnist and a speaker...I get loads of calls and emails every week from agents that commited themselves to $$ each month to services that are primarily bogus.   That is why I am a proponent of self education.  My teaching site is a FREE self tutorial on many items and tools you can use to get to the top of the search engines.  www.realestatetechcoach.com   Let the buyer beware also applies to agents buying web services that they don't fully understand.

Jim Crawford

Jim: I hate to think of the millions blown each year by agents hoping these solicitors and resellers can solve their business issues. 

Well I hear a lot of the personal horror stories up front!  The fees are incredible!  And they can npt get out of the contract.  A few years ago I used to use some words on Microsoft.  They were legitimate.  Whem Microsoft ended  the plan a year later, a lot of bogus companies got involved.  I got suckered in.  I did a lot of quick research on the net, and did a stop payment on my charge cards.  Then I tracked the owner of the domain in Baltimore MD.  I then contacted the state attorney General, and notified them. 

In the meantime I copied and pulled down all their site where they made claims that they were operating under a license from MICROSOFT.  And then I contacted Microsoft legal department and shared with them what I had found.

Many agents I know lost thousands.  Some 20K+ !  I lost nothing, but have a valuable respect for doing lot of research before leaping into anything!  That is why I really do not endorse anything unless I am a satisfied user.

Jim Crawford

Jim, great blog...but even better comments! Thank you for responding to so many comments. I learned alot!

Glad to assist! There is a great group of professional agents here on ActiveRain!  That is what makes it so interesting!

Jim

Jim-  Thank you for your post !!    It's awesome !!

Thanks, but it is people like yourself that are awesome. This ActiveRain community is all about professionalism, and aspirations of raising the benchmark of performance both in our lives, and those we serve!  That is what is most awesome!

Jim,

PPC Fraud not nearly the issue it was a year ago - three years ago forget it - it was horrible.  You are right in that it is an issue - enough so that we built our own fraud detection system that sits on top of our PPC campaigns.  I would be curious to know what PPC systems you are speaking of or just talking about all of them in general - content sites or search ads?  

Content sites are notoriously fraudulant - you can create a site ad an advertising affiliate like Google or Yahoo and then you make money when visitors click on the ads.  Did not take people long to figure out they could make money through fraudulent clicks.  I remember the days when people would create sites with conent ads on them then hire people to surf the net clicking on ads that were on there sites.

If you look at the major engines you will find that there definition of fraud might not be what ours is.  For instance if a prospect was looking for homes "anytown real estate" and they clicked on an ad.  You would pay for that - now suppose that same person clicked back and typed in "anytown, ca homes" and clicked your ad again.  To the SE's that is a valid chargeable click.  What you see on your Stat report is the same person clicked in twice in a short period of time - I don't want to pay for that.

Click fraud is not nearly the concern for experienced advertisers as it has been in the past - if you are doing PPC and you dont have secondary filters and the time to call the SE's and file a click fraud report then don't use the content sites only use search - you can opt out of content advertising.

Mark:

I'm also Google Certified and agree with you.  The first thing I advise is to turn off content search.  Then I have my clients (I don't do PPC consulting or management unless part of an overall internet program.) use phrase and tighter matching to bring only the most focused clicks.  When compared to newspapers, homes magazines, refrigerator magnets, post cards and all the other things we spend billions on each year, PPC is perhaps the most effective marketing mechanism in existence.

Jim Kimmons
http://realestate.about.com

I still know more agents in this business that have been taken to the cleaners with Pay Per Click!  I guess they would raise a stink about it, but many are not even in the business anymore.  I know becuase I receive letter after letter every week about it for years!  Perhaps they are to blame for not having enough knowledge about the subject, and spend their money like drunken sailors without any return.  Real estate agents for the most part do not make that type of money across the board to any pay per click that will actually keep their head above water. If they understood the value of SEO, and natural web placement...they would double their returns in closed business coming directly from the Internet.  Most of the participants in Active Rain are real estate agents, they reap no profit whatsoever from consulting, web services or web placement.  We make our money from closing real estate sales.  I have not spent, and will not spend one cent on PPC.  It is a total waste.  That is strictly my opinion.

Jim C:

Knowledge is the key!  I agree - I too know more do-it-yourself advertisers that have been taken to the cleaners (not just real estate but other services as well)  The risk for a typical agent practicing DIY PPC is much higher than than risk of DIY SEO.  PPC involves a cotrollable process from search -ad copy - landing page - conversion/direct response copy - capture techniques.  I realize both PPC and SEO cost money / time if all you have is time then SEO all the way!  You will be way ahead of the game because most agents don't have time to do SEO either.  We do the same things for our business - we rank high for certian keywords -- We also PPC.  I realize their is a balance - but the bottom line is always that - if you don't see any ROI on your advertising then change it or don't do it at all.  

As far as Knowledge being the key - you said in your blog that  - " 'Pay per click fraud!'  Which is exactly what most of pay per click is! " my response is -- in my experience I have dealt with a little fraud but far from "most" - again stay away from the content network unless you understand the type of traffic you will receive from it.

The difference is that you are a professional.  You have integrity and know what you are doing. I'm sure unlike others, you can offer testimonials, results, and closed income from your services,  Other agents that sign  on the dotted line with unscrupulous PPC and SEO abusers that get agents on the hook for bills that are only enriching the PPC.  The real measure of success will eventually mean more closed business.  I do not like to even comment on specific companies, because I do not want to get sued.  I get loads of emails about this all the time...I guess it has become a hot button.

Have you seen some of the new PPC fraud that is floating our there?  The next time I come across it I should copy the link, and post it.  The best way I can describe it is a gateway or hallway type of page.  They may even have a link or url to one of my sites...when you click on it, it takes you to a totally different site.  It may be for a cluster of group terms for one real estate market, but all it does is goes round and round for the one site. However, it is not to the site you are clicking on, it is for another site only,  It is sort of the Rubik's Cube of Internet searches. A maze without end.  Another way to describe it is like the end-of the Internet site that was there years ago...with no way out!  Links that go nowhere, except for the click!  I am sure someone is making a fortune off of it, and unfortunately someone is paying dearly for it.

Jim,

Yes I have seen something like those sites recently -- in fact I have seen some sites by very large Internet companies that I think is on the edge.  For instance,  I think showing paid ads on parked domains is a bent business practive - and large companies do it and advertisiers for the most part don't realize it.  There are ways to stay away from that garbage.  Yes many agents have been "HAD" by Internet marketing companies claiming to provide real SEO/PPC services when they don't provide much value at all.  They make it sound so good - even gaurantee the results. 

Thanks for all the great information!

Anytime.  Years ago MSN ruled the search engine world.  They were the player as the default search engine.  For one year they  offered a real program called "Keywords!"  You Could Purchase Keywords, or keyword phrases,  It was a very nominal cost of about $40 per keyword/phrase.  So I purchased items like "Atlanta Luxury Homes"  "Atlanta golf homes" "Atlanta homes for sale!"  You were number # 1 in the search engine for the queried results, not as a paid, or apart from ...almost with a star or an asterisk!  Then MSN abruptly ended the program exactly 1 year after they started it.  Then came the fraud!  $500 for a phrase, and they were selling malware, and viruses that you showed up # 1 but only on your own computer!  I know agents that signed on to this and went for over 25K!  All fraud!

It is so important individuals as well as companies have a business plan. It is critical for real estate and mortgage professionals to realize they are their own business upon themselves. Great post.

Jim, your shared knowledge and experience has help me greatly. Thanks. I also agree, in order to be a checker you must know what and how to check. Your point about the webmaster is well taken. I wish I would have started many years ago. Great post as usual.

Tony I agree, most persons in real estate just have a license.

Frank Rubi   We are never too old to learn  The challange wiht the Internet is that it change is constant.  We have to open our eyes, and fasten our seatbelts