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By now everyone has heard of the case of Vern and Marti Ummel; the Carlsbad California couple who is suing their buyers representative, REMAX agent Michael Little. I read a blog last night that asks the question of whether it will matter if the Ummel's prevail. Is the outcome irrelevant?

Personally I think there is still a lot of information we, as the general public, don't know. After selling their home in San Rafael, the couple began house shopping in Carlsbad in order to be closer to their grown children. The ultimately purchased a home in late May 2005 after firing their original agent and cancelling two other purchase contracts.

The suit alleges that Little defrauded the Ummel's by not telling them about several houses in their neighborhood that sold for less than theirs. They also accuse their agent, who was also their loan officer, of conspiring with the appraiser to inflate the true value of the property.

When asked on the Today show whether they did their due diligence, Marti Ummel replied that she had; she "hired a 26 year veteran of the real estate game with REMAX... We hired our agent because he was a real estate profession. He was expected to do the due diligence." That act in and of itself is not due diligence.

The central claim is that the agent didn't tell the Ummel's about two houses that sold near the one they purchased that sold for $105,000 and $175,000 less than theirs. The home that sold for $175,000 less sold 6 months prior to the Ummel's making their offer. I don't work the San Diego market but I can say that six months in a escalating market can make a world of difference with respect to values.

Although they might have been in the same neighborhood, there are a multitude of reasons why houses sell for different prices; different layouts, overall condition, aesthetics, neighbors, view, sellers motivation, etc. All of these things must be considered in order to truly compare apples to apples. Unfortunately the Ummel's are not in possession of the ancillary information about the other sales; just a couple of flyers showing sold prices. Howeer, that little flyer is only telling one tiny part of the story.

The Ummels also believe the appraisal was inflated based on file notes for the appraiser "Purchase price $1,200,000; Need yesterday -- sorry!" Appraisals are performed to ensure the market value of the property supports the sales price. I actually know the appraiser involved in the case; he and his wife worked in real esate in Fairbanks prior to relocating to California several years ago. I can say he worked very hard to meet value where he could and I've heard comments from people her since the case broke that he might have had less than ethical moments. I'll reserve judgment on that one.

I don't think the Ummel's have a snowballs chance of prevailing. I predict they will be rebuked for not performing their own due diligence with respect to the market and it will ultimately come down to the fact that they signed the purchase agreement and closed on the property of their own volition at a time when the real estate prices were marching skyward. Now that the party is over, they want to be compensated for a decision they really weren't ready to make in the first place (in my opinion).

Of all the off-the-wall comments she made I think the end of the interview was most telling. "... there are other attorneys and real estate agents that think we have a good case. We're trailblazers. I think when all the facts come out we have a very good chance of winning and if not we want to change the industry. We want disclosure..."

Buyers have a responsibility of due diligence to ensure the decisions they make are sound. To me this just screams of buyer’s remorse from a woman who isn't happy with the decision she made. What in the world ever happened to personal accountability? This will indeed be interesting to watch.


Jesse & Kathy 

Clifton, Spouses Selling Houses - Fairbanks, Alaska Realtors

Jesse & Kathy Clifton, better known as 'The Spouses' are full time Realtors serving Fairbanks Alaska buyers and sellers. They specialize in residential real estate; new and existing construction as well as undeveloped land in Fairbanks, North Pole, Ft. Wainwright, Eielson Air Force Base and Interior Alaska. Visit their website to review the fee market reports designed to keep you updated on the local Fairbanks Alaska real estate market. Have specific questions? Feel free to contact them anytime. They would love to hear from you.

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27 Comments on Ummel vs. Little; Does the case have merit?

JESSE & KATHY - They also were not first time homebuyers that were somehow duped out of their life savings.  This was a couple that was spending over $1 million.  To be able to afford that home, you should have some financial savvy.  I've made bad choices on investments before, and I lost out.  One even resulted in the offending parties getting arrested.  I blame myself for not doing better due dilligence.

01/28/2008 05:47 AM by Adam Waldman - Long Island REALTOR® (RE/MAX Best)


Good post! It has been hard to piece together all of the information, because only bits have been left here and there... They start in court today right? It would be great if someone from her area were following the case and could update us all on this .... I think it rather odd that she waited over 2 years when the market finally started to let out some steam... sounds like another Ima Sue Happy in my opinion.....

01/28/2008 12:04 PM by Michael La Fay & Sara Edwards (Meadow Lakes Supply Co.)


Great post.  If the price is 1.2 million than a difference of $175,000 6 months earlier is very likely. 0.146% increase over 6 months isn't all that unbelievable.

01/28/2008 04:49 PM by Jonathan Sprouffske (Connolly Tacon & Meserve)


This is one to watch that's for sure. I don't see how they can prevail in court unless the agent was totally unethical and failed to disclose.

01/28/2008 08:02 PM by Monika McGillicuddy~NH Real Estate Broker (Prudential Verani Realty)


Jesse & Kathy, where did you read that the house that sold for $175,000 less, sold 6 months prior to the Ummel's making their offer? I'd be interested to see that link... The NYT story says "Another flier in early October mentioned a house down the street that was the same size and closed the same day as the Ummels’ but went for $175,000 less." The flier for the house that was $105,000 less came a few days after the couple moved in, in August 2005.

I've been trying to find info on the case as I'm not sure they are comparing apples to apples as every house is different.

 

01/29/2008 04:00 PM by Sue


http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/20/housing/939picket021207.txt

01/29/2008 05:22 PM by here's an interesting link


Having practiced real estate (mostly new construction) for 8 yrs in a very hyper market I have often seen almost identical houses in the same neighborhood sell for different prices because the value that buyers place on an individual property is subjective. ie... Buyer 1 will treasure the west facing house for the sunrises on their back patio, yet the Buyer 2 will pay more for the east facing house across the street with the same floorplan and features to watch the sunsets from their back patio, and can't fathom a darkened backyard in the evenings. 

On another house Buyer 1 will pay much higher prices to have a flat back yard with a sloped driveway, but Buyer 2 says you can't pay them to park their car on a hill and will pay more for the exact property across the street with a flat driveway and a sloped backyard because they don't care about the slope in the back.

I can ramble on and on about how differently buyers value different aspects of respective properties ie...   #1 loves the light, #2 hates the heat it brings;   #1 loves the tall trees, #2 is afraid of the tall trees;   #1 loves the pool, #2 doesn't want the maintenance, liability, or higher costs of the pool;   #1 loves the orange color of the house, #2 only wants beige...........   I have personally seen Buyers willing to (or not willing to) pay significant amounts for the same exact house with the same exact features across the street from each other.

So, in summary, real estate agents can do as much as they can to provide "comps" but it is still up to the buyer to decide how much they are willing to pay for the property based on their needs and wants - period!  

With all that said I hope we get to hear more of the details about this case. It sounds as if the agent may?? have witheld information - and if so, then they were wrong.  But, if it is a simple case of the market dropping or a buyer paying more for a house then the one down the street - that in my opinion is not the agent's fault.

01/30/2008 10:55 AM by Carolyn - Seattle


Here's an interesting link I've found:

http://www.ericbramlett.com/blog/carlsbad-realtor-lawsuit-comparables-for-the-property-in-question/

Here's another one:

http://www.vizu.com/res/Current+Events/Business/Grab-bag/Legal/Economy/Domestic+US/real+estate/realtor/agent/poll-results.html?

Here's the thing, the Ummels are making a claim that the agent was motivated by his $30,000 commission (2.5% of $1.2M), and as a result  they are allegeding they were not given information (appraisal, CMA), not told about two other homes, etc.

They are claiming that because of their agent's motivation of that $30,000 commission he did bad things to force them into buying that house through manipulation, concealment . . . WHATEVER! 

They claim as a direct result they ended up paying "more" for the house.  My question would be; why didn't they simply insist that their agent write up the offer for LESS money?  I have buyers who tell me to do this all the time!  I've written plenty of low-ball offers in my career.  It's the seller who counters back, or accepts, or rejects the offer.   It's called negotiation.  

The smoking gun is this . . . the Ummels must have known the current market, and felt the $1.2M was a reasonable offer. 

With or without the appraisal, what got the ball rolling was one thing, and one thing ONLY:  Their OFFER! 

An appraisal would not have been ordered in the first place if the buyers hadn't made the offer.  Period. 

The Ummels, who seem like savvy buyers, signed the sales agreement to purchase.  They must have felt fine in making their offer -- at least I don't think they're claiming the agent held a gun up to their heads. 

I suspect they felt fine with their offer because they knew the market.  Afterall, they fired one agent, and walked away from two previous offers THEY made.  Buyers walk away from offers when the terms and conditions aren't to their liking.

If they felt the price was too high, they should have offered less.  Let's say they came off the $1.2M and offered $175,000 less.  Their agent, I'm sure, would have written it up per their instructions AND he would have been happy with the $25,625 at closing.  ($4,375 less then the $30,000 commission). 

01/30/2008 11:30 PM by Carla Muss-Jacobs, ABR, CEBA, e-PRO, Realtor (EBA Portland, LLC)


Adam Waldman - Long Island Real Estate : Hi, Adam - The times I've lost money on an investment has primarily been my fault... I could try to shift the blame to others, but that's BS, to me anyway.  It is all about personal responsibility.

Sara Lee Edwards - Nobody Sells It Like Sara Lee! Alaska: Hi, Sara Lee - There isn't a lot of information out there other than a few news stories.  I've tried searching the court records to find the filings but so far no luck.  To me it sounds like they're just looking for someone to blame for a falling market.

Jonathan Sprouffske: Hi, Jonathan - It would be very believable for a property to increase in value that much.

Monika McGillicuddy~Real Estate Broker: Hi, Monika - I'm with you... I don't see how they can prevail unless, as you say, the agent truly failed to disclose relevant information.

Hi, Sue - The 6 month date was in an article emailed to me from a friend in California, that I've since deleted.  I've read other reports where it appears the house ($175K less) closed closer to when the Ummel's closed, so I'm not sure.  Hi, "Here's an interesting..." - Thanks for the link... that's a different time-line that the original story I read.  Perhaps the original story was incorrect.

Hi, Carolyn - You're exactly right.  It could be any one of a number of things that caused the house down the street to sell for less.  It's funny you mention the driveway issue... that's actually one of my issues.  I loathe parking on a hill.  As a builder I've had buyers pay for features other buyers would pay me NOT to include.  It's all subjective to the buyers preference.  Beyond that we have no idea what the sellers position was - were they going through a divorce?  Were there other mitigating circumstances?  That would have a major effect on price.

Carla Muss-Jacobs, ABR, CEBA, e-PRO: Hi, Carla - You bring up several valid points.  The buyers were not forced at gunpoint to sign the purchase offer; they had looked at 50+/- houses and were obviously somewhat aware of the market and yet they wrote the offer at $1.2MM.  That's also what the appraisal came in at.  I don't see that they will win, but you just never know.  The commission comment is also very important.. and one I didn't even think of for all the other insanity.  $4,375 isn't much of an incentive to try to manipulate an offer.

 

02/03/2008 04:50 PM by Fairbanks Ak Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS 907-699-6024)


Sorry, it was me that left the "heres an interesting link" .. I'm so used to forums I guess that I forgot it was where my name went & not the title. lol


 

02/06/2008 08:43 AM by Sue


Morning Sue - No problem.  I've seen a few other articles since this first hit and all but one seem to indicate the $175K less sale occurred much closer to when the Ummel's closed.  At this point I'm guessing the original article was probably incorrect.  To me that doesn't really change the dynamic all that much, but it does add an interesting layer to things.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.  Thanks for checking back in!

02/06/2008 12:41 PM by Fairbanks Ak Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS 907-699-6024)


An acquaintance I have in that market area says the two sales in question were not only in the same neighborhood, but model matches to the house the Ummels purchased. There was one difference he noted, one of the cheaper sales had a very nice pool and spa which the Ummels house did not have. (May not mean much in Alaska, but a pool and spa are a big deal in San Diego.) 

The Ummels closed on their house in July, as did one of the cheaper sales. The other sale closed in April, 3 months earlier not 6 months. Both of these houses were available during the time the agent was supposedly serving them. The one that closed the same day they closed was an active listing which was range priced with the top end $100,000 below what they paid when their agent was selling them on the other house.

I don't know if the Ummels will prevail or not, but I wish them well. I think their former agent is a disgrace to the profession.

02/06/2008 10:08 PM by Greg Myers (Greg Myers Appraisal)


Hi, Greg - No, a pool wouldn't mean all that much up here, but we do have equivalent features.  The agent was quoted in one article as saying he didn't show the Ummel's the other house because....X.  I can't remember his reason but it was something specific about the house they said they didn't want, so it was ruled out.  That happens all the time.  Also, why would he have avoided it for any other reason?  The difference in commission is a measly few thousand.

Just for the sake of the discussion, let's say the $175K less sale occurred 3 months earlier.  In a rising market it's not all that hard to believe the other house would sell for that much more.  The other side of the coin is that we have no clue what the sellers who sold for $175K-less property were motivated by.  Divorce, perhaps? Financial problems?  There could be a multitude of factors that would cause a seller to have a lower asking/selling price. 

I'm not all that comfortable with the dual role as agent/loan officer.  That's not a walk I care to walk, but as long as it's legal and everyone is on the same page, go for it.  There is still information we don't have but what I've read seems to point to buyers remorse.  It could turn out that I'm totally off base... and if he did something improper let the appropriate punishment be handed down, but let's not hang the poor fellow just yet.

I just noticed you're in Chapel Hill.  Kathy is originally from eastern NC and we'll retire there at some point.  I love Alaska but I'm pretty fond of the coast as well.

 

02/07/2008 02:36 AM by Fairbanks Ak Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS 907-699-6024)


I don't know who is in the right so I cannot competently comment on that.  However, there are two things I will speak on:

1.  We agents have an obligation to deal honestly and fairly and to use skill, care and diligence (at least in Florida).  Maybe the property that sold for $175k less was a distress sale....or there was some other motivation.  That's fine, but why didn't the agent bring that up?  I would.  

2.  "I can say he worked very hard to meet value where he could and I've heard comments from people her since the case broke that he might have had less than ethical moments" is a very loaded comment.

I don't think an appraiser should have to "work very hard to meet value".  Working diligently and honestly will provide the proper result (IMO).

Being the agent and the loan officer on the transaction, not disclosing relevant recent sales and utilizing an appraisal who doesn't quite get a glowing recommendation throughout Fairbanks leads me to believe the Ummels have a strong case than you might think.

02/07/2008 03:06 AM by Tchaka Owen (Elite Coastal Properties)


I agree with not hanging the guy just yet, but all the information I have points the buyer's having remorse because they made a purchase without having the benefit of some very relevant information that any competent agent acting in their client's best interest would have shared. I would like to hear real evidence that validated the agents actions as justifiabl, and even admirable; but to this point that has not been the case.

02/07/2008 10:02 PM by Greg Myers (Greg Myers Appraisal)


Hi, Tchaka - I suppose it could be construed as a loaded statement... and it probably is.   We all have the same obligations of honest, fair dealings, etc. but I haven't seen evidence that he did anything improper other than the buyers accusation.  He very well may violated his fiduciary duties but there's also a chance he didn't.  Bear in mind I'm not saying the transaction couldn't have been handled better... that much is obvious.  I'm just not ready to proclaim his guilt just yet. 

Greg - I would certainly have disclosed the earlier sale, especially in a neighborhood of all new homes that were somewhat of the same caliber.  I would like to think he did as well and perhaps he did and just didn't do so in writing, which would be a problem for him.  We have more information from the buyers perspective because the media has picked up their story.  I don't know that the agent has given any substantive interviews... that I've seen anyway.

02/08/2008 01:24 AM by Fairbanks Ak Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS 907-699-6024)


I do agree it is possible the agent did everything correctly, except for documenting what he did and why. The case really drives home the need to document ones actions, especially when playing dual roles.

02/10/2008 08:24 AM by Greg Myers (Greg Myers Appraisal)


As a juror on the Ummel vs. Little case, the Ummel case was not valid. We had an unanimous decision. The Ummels had purchased and sold several homes over the years, with and without an agent. The Ummels looked at over 80 homes (up to 1.4m)in spring of '05, about 60 with Mike Little. They made offers on homes that were accepted, only to cancel escrow later on. For their current home, the sale began May 29, 2005 on a home the Ummels picked and at a price the Ummels decided on. The Ummels released sale contingencies on July 22. The sale closed July 29. Afterword, the Ummels received a flyer at their new home about a sale on the same street that sold for over 100k less. Martha Ummel was upset without knowing the facts of that sale, and she looked for a scapegoat. Went after the appraiser, the lender, the agent/broker. Apparently the appraiser and lender settled out of court, which was not a part of this trial. Mike Little was the last person she could find to blame. Bottom line, I think the Ummels have a very beautiful home and hope they can enjoy it now; live and let live! (Hopefully there are no more Ummel lawsuits.) The other homes that sold for less had valid reasons. I think Mr. Little worked hard for the Ummels, and I would be happy to have him as the agent/broker for the next home my husband and I purchase.    

04/11/2008 06:39 AM by DH


Jesse and Kathy,

Sellers can offer to sell a property for anything they want, There is NO obligation for a seller to set any particular value.

The house sold for market value. The Ummels were willing to pay the price and the sellers were willing to take it. An agent has NO responsibility to perform any kind of diligence.

If there is a case here, it would be against the appraiser. The appraiser is the one who should uncover comparable properties and evaluate the approximate "going price" for the house.

This one is going to go badly for agents. They hhave no case but will probably prevail, due to public scritiny of this case.

04/11/2008 06:48 AM by Richard Weisser Coweta Fayette Real Estate ERA United Realty


I had not been following this case, thanks for post on it. It will be interesting to watch the out come and what may follow if the Ummel prevails.

04/11/2008 07:46 AM by Mary Strang, Viroqua, WI Real Estate (RE/MAX Hill Country)


Interesting.  Thanks DH!  So is the verdict in already?  I can't tell.

04/11/2008 09:50 AM by Tchaka Owen (Elite Coastal Properties)


This is the SENIOR version of a  U-TUBE posting - FILE A LAWSUIT!!!  Get on the TODAY program, loads of media attention, start the BUZZZZZZ * make yourself look stupid.

They moved from a VERY UNIQUE area of Marin CA to a VERY UNIQUE in a different way area of SoCa....they did not do their due diligence and if they had grown children in the area, they had loads of resources for the information they say their agent did not provide.

04/12/2008 06:44 AM by Wallace S. Gibson CPM (Gibson Management Group, Ltd.)


Whoa!  DH, please let us know if you were, indeed, a juror and if the case has been decided. 

Overall, I agree with Tchaka's and Greg's observations.  I particularly do not like the idea that the Realtor may have also been involved with the mortgage.  But we need additional input from DH or from someone familiar with the current status of the lawsuit.

04/12/2008 12:14 PM by Bill Schwent - Santa Fe broker (Casa Tierra Realty)


I happened to ask about this after seeing another frivolous lawsuit where a seller is being sued for non disclosure of a neighbor that is a nuisance.

Apparently, the case is decided, see here - http://tinyurl.com/6nsjmu

 DH, if you were a juror, thank you for your time. From what I myself have googled, the Ummels got caught up in the climbing real estate market, knew what they were doing (I felt they were informed buyers/sellers) and not only made an offer on this house for what the seller asked, but when the seller said they wanted more, didn't blink an eye and said ok. They paid most of it with cash from another sale and only needed a $300k mortgage, so the house didn't need to appraise for more.

I know others that have bought sold in this market, 2005, the start of the market crash. They did not try to blame it on someone else.

We will see if the Ummels will appeal. If I hold my breath I don't think it will be for long. The Ummels over-paid, had buyers remorse (IMO), tried & probably succeeded in trashing the agent, then had it bite them in the rear again when they lost. To me they appear to be sore losers that will stop at nothing to prove their point and have people side with them. I hope that if they do try to appeal, they are not allowed to waste any more tax payer money, nor any more jurors time. Jurors also lose here as they have to give up their lives.

04/13/2008 07:46 AM by Sue


I feel bad for the buyers. But they should have at least asked and invested a bit on there own . Is it always the Realtors fault? No But this agent seemed to be a bit greedy. This is going to be an interesting verdict.

04/13/2008 09:24 AM by Sharon Harris (AllQuest Real Estate)


This really is inappropriate.  If I was the REALTOR I would sue for libel over the comment about the appraiser being affected by the REALTOR.

04/18/2008 10:27 AM by ERA Heavener Realty Co.


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Real Estate Agent: Fairbanks Ak Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS 907-699-6024)
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