David-Nice job as always.  Lots of great information.  Would you be willing to come to Southern California to replace my old water heater?  I live near the beach...LOL

Marlene, hmmm, Southern California, lots of sun, beach, Okay, I'm there!!  Thank you for your compliments!

This is a pretty good system. Great Post

Frank, which brand and model did you purchase?  From the sound if it, it sounds like you like it a lot!  Thanks for your comments!

I have two natural gas tankless hot water heaters and my sister has a propane one.  Here is my experience:

I live at 9000 feet, in the mountains of Colorado.  The plumber that installed it was installing lots of them that summer as he had just had training in it and was enthusiastic about them.  Unfortunately he didn't realize is that there is something that must be removed at high altitudes to allow a different mixture of gas to air so that it would burn more efficiently.  The first few months we had it, it was very noisy and our gas bills went up instead of down.  It wouldn't get as hot as it was supposed to so we installed a new thermostat that we could set above 120'.  The regular thermostat won't let it get hotter than 120 and they don't recommend anything hotter.  The new thermostat resets itself back to 120 everytime you get a power outage, which we get frequently, even if just for a second.  It turned out that we didn't need the new thermostat because when he made the high altitude adjustment, the gas bill went down, the noise went away (mostly) and the water got hotter.  Our master bath is a pretty good distance from the heater, and an inline booster would be a good idea as I waste a lot of water clearing the cold water out of the pipes.  Another plumber we know suggested a holding tank between the cold water outlet and the tank, so that we would have a supply at least warmed to room termperature and it wouldn't have to work so hard warming up our really cold water.  It would have to be a pretty good sized tank though, and I don't know that it would be worth it.

My second water heater has replaced my boiler for my hot water heat system.  That seems to work ok although I don't know that it is any better than a new, high efficiency boiler would have been.  I doubt it was cheaper as it is a commercial system rather than the regular residential one.  Both units together cost me about $7,000 to install.  They are both Rinnai.  The only other negative is that they are in a closet that backs to a bedroom, and are a bit noisy.  I suspect it is because they have a power assisted side vent and if they were vented through the roof with no fan to assist they would probably be quieter. 

My sister's propane unit is Bosch and she is happy with it.  I was at her house in Arizona last week and could have showered for 2 hours and not run out of hot water.  That and the economy of it are the primary reasons for using the systems. 

What a great blog.  We learned so much!! Keep writing.

Joanne, THANK YOU for your comments.  This is really helpful!

Tim and Pam, thank you, and let me know if you have some other topic you would like information about.  Thanks for commenting.

hello david

hope this helps someone out

i bought a bosch unit from menards after my second water heater died in 4 yrs

installed it myself and love it

just wish i read more about it because it puts out less then 1.5 gpm but when i do change will stay with tankless

and was very easy to install(atleast if u work in construction and know how to do plumbing  lol)

This is great information as this has been a"hot" topic in my house lately. Thanks

Harold, great testimony!  Thanks for the comments!

Cheri, "hot" is what it's about!!  Hope it all turns out without you getting a bath!

Thanks for sharing the information. I have heard of it but do not know anyone who has it here.

Howdy David

Every time I read one of your posts I get to learn someting.

Keep up the good and helpful info.

Have a good one

Gita, you are welcome, hope it helps!

Dale, thank you, I appreciate your comments and I truly hope benefit is gained!

I now have a total of 5 Takagi tankless water heaters installed both at my home and at rental properties here in Chicago. They are now working well, but it did require some effort to get everything working properly. I've put up a page about installation problems with tankless heaters - Paragon Home Inspections Evanston / Chicago IL here.

If you are looking for a tankless water heater I would recommend the Titan electronic tankless water heater. I purchased one years ago and I enjoyed it so much I actually started a company selling them. The titan don't have the temperature variation problems that other units have and they are protected from dry-starts. They are very compact, very powerful and made in the USA by Niagara Industries who have over  23 years of experience.   For more information please visit me site at www.etankless.com or you can call me at 888-688-8010

"Electric tankless water heaters do not heat water as quickly as gas water heaters, which makes them ill-suited to be a central water heater functioning as the primary source of hot water in a home. Electric tankless water heaters can function well in some other configurations."

That is not true anymore.  Electric has come a long way and can provide whole house hot water and very fast.  In fact, I have an electric tankless that provides hot water for my radiant floor heat AND domestic hot water for the whole house.  We only use it in the winter as my Solar Hot Water heater provides our hot water in the summer. 

I personally think the conventional water heaters out to be phased out and replaced with the tankless ones; that is, if we are really serious about conserving energy, etc.

The heaters have elements in them.  When demand is high, all are on.  When demand lessens, one or two of them are on.  You really will have an endless supply of hot water.  If the water in the pipe between the heater and the facet is cold at the time you turn the facet on, that water won't be hot until the new water from the heater gets to the end of the line where you are.

If instant hot water is important to you, you can install a recirculating pump on the hot water side of the line, and water will always be hot the moment you turn on one of the hot water facets.

Tankless heaters take even longer than traditional tanks to provide hot water!  Precious water is also wasted down the drain while waiting for the heated water to travel to the tap!  I recommend The Hot Water Lobster instant hot water valve over a tankless.  Instead of waiting longer for hot water, you'll get it faster!  It gives convenient access to instant hot water throughout the entire home!  It's easy for anyone to install, works off of the homes existing plumbing, and costs only $179.95! 

The Hot Water Lobster uses no electricity and is pump free, so it creats no noise.  It is made in the U.S.A., has a 10 year warranty, and can be easily installed in under 10 minutes.

Check it out at:

http://www.hotwaterlobster.com/

David... Nice post with lots of good info.  We're just starting a new traditional neighborhood development and one of my builders told me last week that he is installing tankless heaters in all the homes he builds in the neighborhood.  They used to be a bit more expensive - even a year ago - but the city is now giving incentives to builders such that they are about the same price as tank heaters.  A couple of interesting additional things I've learned though: 1. Your plumber needs to be trained on the system and familiar with the installation.  2. To make the tankless work correctly and efficiently, it needs a 2-inch gas line rather than a standard 1-inch which normally feeds the house, and 3. There are now units available with remotes or wall-mounted switches that you operate when entering a room, e.g., bathroom, which direct instant hot water to that room.  That saves wasting water by having to wait while the cold water is run out of the pipes.  In fact, I understand that now this can even be accomplished with a room motion detector.

Is that pretty "George Jetson", or what!

We are considering the Bosch propane for our master bath addition. Thanks for the info.

I had heard that these water heaters don't allow you to use hot water in more than one place at a time.  For instance, if someone in your home is taking a shower, you won't get hot water to your kitchen sink at the same time.  Anyone know if this is true?

Depends on the heater - generally, gas fired units can be built with higher capacities than their electric counterparts. For example the gas fired Takagi T-M1 at my  2 1/2  bath room house supples plenty of hot water even when the dishwasher or washer is running.

Tankless water heaters are expensive and overrated!  They take longer to provide hot water than even a standard hot water tank.  Water and time are wasted down the drain while waiting for this hot water to reach the tap!  A great alternative is a Hot Water Lobster Instant Hot Water Valve!  It's a recirculation system that conserves water while also providing instant hot water throughout your entire home!  It's easy for anyone to install, works off of the homes existing plumbing, and only costs $179.95! 

The Hot Water Lobster uses no electricity and is pump free, so it creates no noise.  It is made in the U.S.A., has a 10-year warranty, and can be easily installed in under 10 minutes.

Check it out at:

Can I install a tankless hot water heater inline with my exisiting hot water tank system?

We are in the process of remodeling our home and will end up with 5 bathrooms which contain 3 tubs and 4 showers.  Our current tank holds 50 gallons which is not enough by itself and it does not appear that a single tankless system will supply the potential volume needed either.

I thought if I could feed the tankless system out of the current hot water tank (or vice versa) that this might work since I would not have to heat cold water.

DAVID: I haven't  had any experience with the tank less but I do know that when I have to replace my water heater  will go tank less!! 

Keep these in mind for your VA buyers!  Remember, you can ad up to $3000 for energy efficient improvements to a home being purchased with a VA loan!  I've done this with a few buyers and it's easy!

Tina in Virginia

Excellent info!  Here is what we are wondering.  The units for a house of around 1800 sq. ft cost between $1500 - $2000.  Once installed your electric bill is much higher and takes around 3 years for it to pay for itself.  Now we haven't heard of the gas units, which sound much better because here in California Gas is much cheaper than electric.  We will look into those.  But from what I can gather from everyone here, gas gets hotter faster, but it also sounds like you need something else to get the hot water to its location faster.  We always have heard that the hot water is instant. And how do we know if the installer really knows what he/she is doing?  And then how do we know that it was installed correctly? 

I just left you a comment on your doorless shower. I am looking for just this  idea to complete it!Some other way to get HOT water is a necessity for us. We are wasting so much water now trying to get the hot water to our bathroom, only 20 feet away. I watched and took pictures of my home being built 13 years ago, and I know they didn't swing the pipes through Cleveland to get to my bathroom in suburban Atlanta, yet it takes over 1.5 minutes to feel any warm water in the shower and sinks of the Master Bath. I have just discovered your gold mine of ideas. As  a homeowner and former C-21 realtor,I applaud your ideas and information. Thanks!

I live in a house built in 1920. We have a small basement which housed our water heater until recently. After the third time that I found 6" of water in the basement due to one or another of the feeds to or from the water heater springing a leak, we decided to install a tankless Rinnai water heater. I love it! Our natural gas bill is consistently half of what it was and the hot water has no end. The one downside is that we installed the heater on an outside wall and not in the basement in the center of the house. It takes longer for the hot water to reach the master bath shower than it did before. And it was expensive to install. But other than that, I highly recommend tankless water heaters.

Thanks for the very informative post.